Hey everyone, we all just got into the courthouse. Verdict is coming very soon. Legal teams from both sides are here.
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:05:59 PM
If you think cockroaches are fast when you turn the lights on, you should see journalists run to a courthouse when there's a high-profile verdict.
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:08:40 PM
There should be little to no delay here in terms of when the verdict is delivered. We're effectively waiting on the paperwork at this point.
David Hamilton8/24/2012 10:09:53 PM
Josh, any thoughts on what it may means that the jury came to a decision so quickly?
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:11:33 PM
@David Hamilton I think it's really a surprise to everyone here, and a number of legal experts we talked to earlier this week. The general consensus was that there was just an incredible amount of work involved in filling that form out.
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:12:26 PM
The speed suggests several things -- that a decision was very clear cut, and perhaps that they had a good foreman working their way through what needed to be done. My guess: it's a bit of both.
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:12:52 PM
Hopefully we'll get the inside scoop on how it went down after the verdict is delivered.
David Hamilton8/24/2012 10:13:07 PM
I was surprised to learn that of the 9-member jury, 4 have worked for tech companies, and two are engineers. This is not a naive bunch, apparently.
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:14:46 PM
So far we've got a whole bunch of outlets here with us, Bloomberg, Forbes, Mercury News, The Verge, and the WSJ.
Christopher MacManus8/24/2012 10:15:08 PM
I think some people might not understand what is at stake here. CNET's Greg Sandoval sums it up nicely: "If it wins, Apple wants $2.5 billion. Samsung is seeking $519 million from Apple. What this case is really about, though, is stopping Google and its Android operating system. Steve Jobs, the late Apple co-founder and CEO, said before dying last October that he wanted to destroy Android because he considered it a "wholesale" ripoff of the iPhone.
If Apple wins, the company's lawyers will first be able to force Samsung to stop shipping some of its handsets and computer tablets in the United States but more importantly, Apple will have a nice precedent with which to attack HTC and other companies that use Android. If Apple loses, then the decision will obviously work against Apple's larger anti-Android strategy."
@David Hamilton good, clear decision by people in the know then!
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:16:01 PM
And the courtroom is already filled up. Just a single row of seats left , and it;s for Apple's lawyers. Almost an eerie quiet here. Lawyers aren't even talking to each other.
TomMcD8/24/2012 10:16:18 PM
I work for cell phone company. Hopefully this isn't too damaging. This could mean loss of jobs possibly. I honestly hope that Apple wins this on the cell phone end. Can't do without the iPhone. If they don't, do you think this will hinder the launch of iPhone 5??
William Dotinga8/24/2012 10:16:20 PM
Better than the Oracle Google jury. They were in over their heads Maybe all the tech IP suits should be tried by this kind of jury.
Travis Riley8/24/2012 10:16:27 PM
I think the quick verdict favors apple. But who are we kidding, no matter the verdict it's getting appealed!
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:17:04 PM
I ran into one of Samsung's lawyer on the way up here and asked if he was happy to be done with this. He said "well, kind of."
Stefan Holder8/24/2012 10:17:18 PM
Josh, do you think the verdict, whatever the outcome, would reshape the landscape of competitive business strategy for years to come?
Donald Brown8/24/2012 10:17:23 PM
Do the decisions have to be unanimous, or is plurality good enough.
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:17:27 PM
from the official docket:
Alex Wong8/24/2012 10:17:28 PM
Apple's got a huge stake riding on this trial; hopefully the jury takes a cue from the Apple/Samsung trial in South Korea and punishes them both.
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:17:34 PM
"The Jury informed the Court at 2:35 p.m. that they have reached a verdict which will be read in Courtroom 1 as soon as the parties can be assembled. "
james_rdv8/24/2012 10:17:35 PM
My guess is that Samsung will have to pay less than the 2.5 bi asked by Apple. But, regardless, it will have to pay something. Samsung has the power to come up with news devices in a short amount of time. It will be a PR disaster thou...
williamrolsen8/24/2012 10:18:34 PM
The fact you can get patents on obvious things is the real problem. Agreed that best outcome is both are punished and things continue as they currently are.
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:18:56 PM
@Stefan Holder There's definitely the potential for that if Apple wins. In any case, I don't think anyone expects there won't be an appeal. One IP expert I talked to last week was adamant about the fact that even the winners sometimes appeal if they don't think they got enough in damages.
Donald Brown8/24/2012 10:19:39 PM
Given the number of issues they had to deal with - I don't think the jury did its do diligence. And I'll say that no matter what they come back with.
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:19:40 PM
Side note: I'm very used to taking photos, or having a photographer on these live blogs. Can't do that here for obvious reasons folks.
Travis Riley8/24/2012 10:19:47 PM
I'm guessing that Microsoft would love to see a defeat of Samsung. If Apple can get Samsung devices blocked then you can guarantee that Apple would then go after other smart phone makers. This would only help Microsoft and their win 8 phone OS. Wonder if Apple has ever considered this aspect.
nick g8/24/2012 10:19:58 PM
Matthew M8/24/2012 10:20:03 PM
Best solution: Jury says "This is stupid. We're not giving either company anything. Take your generic slab phones home and stop whining."
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:21:07 PM
PR teams from both sides here as well. They must have been staying nearby too. One of Apple's lawyers just walked into court wearing a polo shirt and jeans, so clearly he wasn't expecting this today.
kay8/24/2012 10:21:08 PM
Its likely Apple will win to a large extent but the implications on Android thence will be dire. They can attack all other Android running OEMs on the same basis. I really hope somehow someway Samsung takes this one
Alex Wong8/24/2012 10:21:10 PM
What I'd really like to see is a trial that retroactively throws out blatantly stupid IP patents, but that's just wishful thinking.
Calvin Courtland8/24/2012 10:21:35 PM
Even if Apple wins, I don't see a widespread injunction coming against Samsung products. Consumers want competition and choice -- the court may make Samsung pay for that which would ultimately be passed down to the consumer
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:21:51 PM
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:22:02 PM
Judge Lucy Koh that is.
Miko Matsumura8/24/2012 10:22:15 PM
Samsung requested 30 minutes to go through the jury's results before the jury is dismissed "for the purpose of seeking clarification of potential inconsistent verdict if necessary."
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:22:20 PM
Samsung requested 30 mins to require verdict form for any inconsistencies.
Jared I8/24/2012 10:22:22 PM
This should be good for Apple if they win, even if it isn't the price they wanted, because Samsung needs to be held accountable for the blatant patient violations, even if it is obvious things.
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:22:27 PM
Apple thinks it's too long.
France-8/24/2012 10:22:33 PM
In any case, these trials are getting old. Though I do think that if Apple wins, it could be good for Android in the sense that they would be able to completely revamp everything and make it even better.
Nicole Cozma8/24/2012 10:22:43 PM
I'd also love to see some control placed on all the ridiculous patent claims brought to trial. And perhaps some control on patents issued for things that companies never get around to making.
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:22:58 PM
Surprise, they don't agree on something! Koh says she hasn't seen the verdict form. She says she's going to take an initial look at it, and if there are spots that aren't filled in or unclear that she'll ask them to clarify it.
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:23:23 PM
If there are damages for an invalid patent, Koh says she was planning to send them back to reconsider. Koh now asking both sides if she can eyeball it first.
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:23:56 PM
Samsung's attorney Verhoeven says that he wants the whole thing read, then there will be a 10-15 min break to look over it for any errors.
Josh Lowensohn8/24/2012 10:24:13 PM
Apple's attorney Michael Jacobs says that works for him too.